The Hellbender Chronicles

The Willow Creek ATV Trail Expansion extends the trail from the current 10.8 miles to 54.8 miles (507% increase). It also expands the trail from the Willow Creek watershed to the Sugar Run and North Branch of Sugar Run watersheds, with more stream crossings than can easily be determined. Some of the streams to be compromised are Whitney Run, Railroad Run, Bullis Hollow Run, Linn Brook, Buck Lick Run, Sugar Run, and Cavanaugh Branch. Amazingly, one of the primary reasons for the trail expansion is to curb illegal ATV use on the ANF! The location of the proposed trail is suspect. It involves two more MA 6.1 tracts, which is hardly in line with the prescribed management practices for this designation. It is just east of FR 137, which just happens to be the eastern boundary of FAW’s proposed Chestnut Ridge Wilderness Area. The noise associated with this ATV trail expansion will not stop at FR 137, diminishing the wildness values of the land west of FR 137, wilderness or not.

The proposed trail is to be contained in the Marshburg/Stickney Intensive Use Area (IUA). Wow, there’s a new one for you. While the trail expansion is only fivefold, the area affected by the expansion is sevenfold to tenfold.

New York has zero miles of public ATV trails.

Rj

It is proven that if you provide a quality and well maintained trail sys that illegal riding is diminished. Regarding FAW's Chestnut Ridge proposal-Its just that, a proposal. Current management allows for the trail development in the Intensive Use Area (IUA)....duh.

RJ- I'm curious how you arrived at "the area affected by the expansion is sevenfold to tenfold". Quantify please..

Fe - not true. It is actually quite the opposite. There is evidence in both Pennsylvania and nationwide that the more extensive the public trails system the more illegal use that follows. The Allegheny National Forest doesn't have the personnel to police even half of the trails we have let alone new trails.

OK Jim,
Educate me. Make a believer outta me.

"There is evidence in both Pennsylvania and nationwide that the more extensive the public trails system the more illegal use that follows."

What evidence and where is it so I can educate myself. I want see it, understand, and prove it to myself so I can educate others.

BTW wasn't there some kind of meeting the other night that the forestry had about this project? What happened?

RJ-How come you never answered my last post regarding the area affected is "sevenfold to tenfold"?

I'm on the fence on this thing but I AM concerned. I'm not a rider but I do live here and the economy is in the toilet. Economic Diversification is a good thing. Managed properly this trail could bring a boost to the Bradford area economy. Surely ADP isnt against diversifying the economy? Seems to me that this organization should find a way to ensure that the project is built and managed responsibly instead of just applying liberal amounts of rhetoric and getting steam rolled by the forestry.

Fe, the Bradford area may in fact have an economy in the toilet, but do you think opening the woods up to more ATV use is the answer? Do you think that will produce, even in a small way, a measurable increase in the local (Bradford) economy? LOL! Sure, maybe the closest bar to Willow bay may experience more business and the closest gas station may sell a few more gallons of gas ... But enough to SAVE BRADFORD, or help save Bradford, or contribute in a measurable way?
There are others that use the same area that involve use of the woods (the same land) that have a smaller or no noticeable impact on the environment. These people also spend money locally ... and some of these people may be displaced because of an increase in ATV use.
As far as enforcement of ATV trail use .... is there ANY policing at all? I'm thinking NO. I have "acquaintances" that ride all over the ANF and they report that there is ZERO patrolling of the trails (legal trails and otherwise) ... It's a big joke. Save, for an "officer" occasionally parking at one of the trail heads there is absolutely NO enforcement of stuff like ATV riders riding where they don't belong and ATVs going off trail. I guess you could check into how many tickets are written in a day, or week or month. Check with law enforcement and add up all the daily tickets they issue .... my guess is it's ZERO or close to it! ... Meanwhile, every single day there are hundreds or thousands of ATV riders all over the ANF riding wherever they want.
I've heard the rhetoric that there are patrolling officers and they are real "hard" on offenders ..... But I've witnessed hundreds of violations myself, but never somebody getting an actual ticket. I've never even ever heard of anybody I know getting one. SURELY "they" should be ABLE to properly maintain, and patrol the existing ATV trails before providing a bigger area where the laws are unenforceable.
Fe, there are many groups of people who "use" that same piece of land who are bothered by the ATVs. These people also pay to camp nearby, eat, do laundry, stay in motels, buy souvenirs, buy gas, shop at ALL local businesses, etc. These "other" users of this "same said area" include, but are not limited to: small game hunters, big game hunters, fisherman, fly-fisherman, bird watchers, nature photographers, day hikers, backpackers (NCT), Geocachers, rock climbers, cavers, picnickers, dog walkers, mountain bikers, berry pickers ...ect. There are lots of people who are "out there in the woods" to observe or participate in nature, for many different reasons, that HATE ATVs buzzing through the woods. What IF building more ATV trails actually "turns more people off" than it actually draws into the area? What IF we get a negative impact on the local (Bradford) economy? There are MANY more people who come to the area we are talking about for the quiet and solitude than come to "tear up the woods" on ATVs. There are MORE daily mountain bikers that come to enjoy (quietly) those same said (proposed trails) than ATV'ers ... So that JUST loosing the mountain bikers to ATV'ers will have a visible and noticeable impact on the local economy .... not to mention the small game hunters, big game hunters, fisherman, fly-fisherman, bird watchers, nature photographers, day hikers, backpackers (NCT), Geocachers, rock climbers, cavers, picnickers, dog walkers, berry pickers ...ect that choose to stay away.
As far as your mention of Jim's assumption or assertion that ATVing actually affects a larger area than what is physically allocated, it's simple. First, and foremost the SOUND of the constant drowning (mixed with the exhaust fumes) highly disturbs, disrupts, and re-locates many specie of animals, not limited to, but including deer, bear, coyotes, fox, turkey, and other game and non-game animals. And second, every single ATV trail system has a very high number of "off trail", illegal excursions into surrounding areas. I think Jim was being very conservative estimating 30 or 40% "over use" for the proposed area. I think (from my own eye witness accounts) that the ATV'ers actually "use", double, triple, or quadruple the trails they are actually allocated.

It seems the more I read in here the more miss-informed I see certain individuals are ! Illegal riding! because of more legal trails! think what your saying, It has been a well known fact that when new legal trails are created the illegal riding drops dramatically, look at the legal trail systems created in other States that there economy has gone down the tubes, what they set out to accomplish has been done! The riders stay to the trails and trail systems or face terrific fine's, they obey the vehicle code when used on there streets,the Local people accept them with open arms because of the economy it brings in, you can't argue the fact about the revenue because you don't have to be a rocket scientist to see what has been happening in these towns, if you think this is a false claim try contacting some of the local officials in these small once dead towns. As an example look at Gilbert West Virginia, where the Rock House trail head is for the famous HatField McCoy trails are located for the 3rd time this coming spring I will be taking a group of 34 riders there and at approx. $300.00 per rider for permits, lodging, Meals, and Gas = $10,200.00 for the weekend and is nothing to sneeze at ! think my math is off! figure it our for yourself,there are many groups such as the one I have organized that go to these places everyday so I can't see how there is no revenue Reservations for lodging is normaly booked almost a year in advance! you go on to say about the Bicyclist's do all these wonderful things! I'm curious as to see what, they are not a bad group but do not bring the revenue for these towns that the ATV'ers do, they camp on the trails, ATV users rent lodges or stay at hotels, Hikers and Bicycle riders cary there own food, ATV Riders head for the nearest Resturant that is accessible to a trail head and spend a $10.00 bill each for dinner or lunch then head for the local gas station to spend more money on fuel the bicycle riders carry there water with them and half the time the ATV Riders clean up the garbage left behind by others because the Hikers and the Bicycle riders have no way to carry there stuff back out! I'm not saying this is true in all the cases but I have seen this happen, there are bad apples in every Barrel weather it be your's or mine ! Comments are made as to how the National Forest can condone ATV Riding in the Forest because of the amount of accidents,you have been very much miss-informed again my friend! Please look into the CPSC, and the Neiss facts on accidents published by our very own federal Government. Bicycling is one of the top activities of people getting hurt, like roller blading, Skating, and the such. Please use your internet to your advantage and learn a few of these facts, the Internet is such a wonderful tool in obtaining knowledge about things that you know nothing of.
Thank you and enjoy your day and the Sunshine that the good Lord has brought into each of our days on this earth, were all just passing thru !
Oh before I forget, I am trying to remember the last time I heard of a group of hikers or Bicycle riders cleaning up 20 or 30 miles of trails in the remote forest area's and removing the rubbish left there by others,I wonder how they pulled there trailers to get the junk out ! you wouldn't of used a motorized vehicle now would ya?

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